Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:14:38 +0100 From: Paul Barclay Subject: [O] NetRep Reply 557 ======================================================================= NetRep Reply number 557 to the Magic: the Gathering List ======================================================================= This reply covers the digests: MTG-L Digest - 11 Jul 2000 to 12 Jul 2000 (#2000-218) MTG-L Digest - 12 Jul 2000 to 13 Jul 2000 (#2000-219) MTG-L Digest - 13 Jul 2000 to 14 Jul 2000 - Special issue (#2000-220) Older replies may be found at: http://www.second-hand.demon.co.uk ftp://ftp.magic.asuka.net http://www.yavapaiopen.com http://www.en.magic.asuka.net http://www.wizards.com/dci/judge/judgelistarchive.asp (note the new Yavapai Open address) LONG ANSWERS: ======================================================================= [Ed Phillips, asking about triggered abilities] >My opponent has a Woodripper with s False Demise enchanting it. He >attacks with the Woodripper. I block with my Wall of Tears (which has >been enhanced to have a power of 6 - enough to kill the Woodripper). The Woodripper dies, False Demise triggers, then False Demise puts the Woodripper into play under the control of the player who controlled the False Demise. ----- [Martin Roach, asking about Living Terrain] >I'm confused. If I play a living terrain on a land it loses its ability to >tap and produce mana. yes? IT seems so in the stratergy for the Prophcy No. Living Terrain just makes the land into a 5/6 creature in addition to everything it is already. >How does the difference between still "counting" as a land and still "being" >an enchantment meen that opalescense allows enchantments to keep abilities. There's no real difference, and neither removes any abilities. ----- [Kevin Hjelden, asking about Avatars] >Although this isn't truly fizziling, how about a manabarbs in play and >you are at 9 life with 8 lands in play for the white one? (and yes, >this happened to me :[, and it sucked. although, i *was* beating him >down with a serra avatar :) ) Just a check, could I cast him and live? >(i had no other spells in my hand that could use the extra mana) Yes. Play the Avatar. You're on 9 life, so you must pay the full cost. Tap for 8 mana. Pay for the Avatar. Go to 1 life. The Avatar resolves. ----- [Jacek Gadomski, asking two questions] >1. My opponent plays Humble against my creature which already have >regeneration paid. Does creature lose regeneration or not? No. Humble just removes abilities, not any effects such as already created regeneration shields. >2. My opponent blocks creature with trample by activating Trap Runner >ability. Does my opponent receive a damage from the trampler or not? Yes. Tramplers can deal damage to the defending player equal to their Power minus the toughness of any creatures blocking them. Since no creatures are blocking it, it will deal all the damage to the defending player. ----- [Ingo Warnke, asking for some clarifications] >I'd like to note that the update and the rulebook is most probably slightly >misworded. It refers to 'a spell which will create a permanent'. I *think* >it means only 'a spell which will become a permanent'. The difference are cards >like Mogg Alarm that create permanents (namely tokens). You're correct. It means that you can use a CoP:Red to prevent damage from a Ghitu Slinger on the stack. >Good question, it's not entirely clear if the phrase 'a target not already >chosen for Forgotten Lore' only applies to the Lore's own target selection >process or to external target selections as well. I'd say it applies to all >target selections, so B can not be chosen again. It applies to all targets, no matter how they're chosen. ----- [Misi, asking about Humility] >If Humility is a 1/1 _without_ abilities, how can it interact with >other creatures/enchantments opanimated? It already has. It has a continuous effect, so it applies to all cards in play at the same time. It wipes its own ability out at the same time as it wipes out the ability of a Mogg Flunky >Why does the loop resolves in Humility being a 1/1 with no abilities >and not a 4/4 generating its continuos effect? The only time you get a loop with continuous effects is if two or more effects depend on each other. This can happen with two Opalescences and a Humility in play. In that case, you apply them all in timestamp order, so you'll get the 1/1 case if Humility was after the two Opalescences and the 4/4 case if it came before the two. If it's in the middle, you get one 4/4 Opalescence and lots of other 1/1 creatures with no abilities. If you're not a total expert in the Magic rules, it's not worth thinking too much about this stuff - learn the easier stuff first. ----- [Ed Phillips, asking about CEs] >There needs to be a rule for CEs in these >kind of looping situations that says something like "Apply each CE once, >and if for some reason a static ability that generates one or more of the >CEs is removed by any of the CEs, that's okay" This exists, to some extent - an ability will apply up until the point that it is removed. >What if you played Humble on the Humility (while Op is in play)? Hum >wouldn't generate it's CE any more would it? No. Its ability will depend on the Humble, so its ability will be moved after that of the Humble. Its ability won't apply to anything, and all other enchantments will be their normal Power/Toughness. ----- [Rob Allertson, asking some questions] >Goblin War Strike deals to your opponent damage equal to the number of >Goblin cards you have in play. >My question is, has any errata been issued for this card? No. It only counts goblin cards. >T: Target creature other than Sorceress Queen is 0/2 until end of turn. > >Can you please tell me how this interacts with other cards, for example, >a giant growth played on target creature either before or after the >queen's ability has been used on that creature All of them are applied in timestamp order - so if you Growth it first, it will be a 0/2, and if you Growth it after, it will be 3/5. >Third and final question. Can I activate my COP: Red, in response to it >being Capsized so that I can prevent the damage from a Fanning the >Flames that I know the opponent has in their hand? No. The source has to exist or be referenced by a spell or ability. ----- [Zigurds Gustins, asking about counters] >If I counter Powersink with a Counterspell, do I have to pay the required X >mana ? No. You're not even allowed to pay the mana, because the Powersink was countered. ----- [Ed Phillips, with some more questions] >Isn't "Target creature is 0/2" a type-changing ability? No. It doesn't change the type, just the power/toughness. >What if you play Humble in response to a creature activating an ability >(like regeneration)... the ability still resolves right? (Silver Rule)? Yes, of course. ----- [I'm quoting Jeff Jordan's response on CEs - he's right (especially] [about the knowledge required to ask the right questions about CEs ] >Misi and Ed Phillips seem to be having difficulty understanding how >continuous effects are applied. Don't feel bad; knowing enough to >ask the questions you did probably put you in 99th percentile of CE >understanding. > >First, about loops. CEs cannot form loops. A "loop" implies that >after Event A happens, it forces (or is sufficient to allow) a string >of events to occur that end up with Event A happening again. And I >am using a strict definition of "event," where time passes in between >each event. > >Time does not pass in between applying CEs. They are all applied at >the same time, and continuously. What the rules do, is define an order >in which to apply multiple CEs that seem to contradict one another. >There *is* no, and can *be* no, looping in this order. Each CE gets >assigned a single place in the ordered list, and is applied exactly >once. "Once" isn't explicit in the rules, but if you think about >it, it is implicit. What would Crusade do otherwise? :) > >You have been looking at CEs as if each is applied separately. >Instead, look at the set of CEs being combined into a single CE whose >net effect can depend on the order of the combination. Unfortunately, >some of the parts being combined have to ask the question "what is the >net result of CEs?" in order to tell how they apply. These *cannot* >look at the fully combined CE, simply because that cannot be defined >until the question is answered. So, they ask the question of the >partial set applied before them in the order. > >It is quite possible for the results to seem self contradictory. For >a good example, I can make one up: > > The Meek Shall Inherit > Artifact, 3 > All creatures with power less than 2 get +2/+2. > >Creatures that TMSI is applied to don't usually qualify for the effect >after it is applied. A real example is Titania's Song: everything it >applies to ceases to qualify for the effect. Neither card cares that >they apparently don't apply to the end state. If they did, a weenie >would oscillate between being 3/3 and 1/1, and an artifact would >oscillate between being a creature and being a plain artifact. > >My point is that you cannot look at the end result of all the CEs and >decide that one of them no longer applies as it *was* applied. Each >CE gets one chance to determine how it applies in the order, and >doesn't worry if the condition changes. And while it seems odd, this >includes not caring if the ability that caused the CE exists in the >end. It existed when it was applied. > >The exact order to apply effects that alter P/T are: >1) Start with what is printed on the card. >2) Apply any copy-card changes (like on Volrath's Shapeshifter) > in appropriate order. >3) Apply any remaining effects that say "Foo is a BAR *creature*" in > appropriate order. >4) Apply any +X/-Y counters. >5) Apply any remaining P/T modifiers in appropriate order. > A) If the modifier is "FOO gets +X/-Y", and (or subtract) from the > current value to get the new current value. > B) If the modifier is "FOO is X/Y," erase the current value and > X/Y becomes the new current value. Paul. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- - - Paul Barclay -- paul@second-hand.demon.co.uk -- Phone: 07939 081819 - - DCI Level 3 judge ---- http://www.second-hand.demon.co.uk/index.htm - - Official MTG-L Network Representative for Wizards of the Coast, Inc -