Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:12:18 +0100 From: Paul Barclay Subject: [O] NetRep Reply 534 ======================================================================= NetRep Reply number 534 to the Magic: the Gathering List ======================================================================= This reply covers the digests: MTG-L Digest - 12 Apr 2000 to 13 Apr 2000 (#2000-111) MTG-L Digest - 13 Apr 2000 to 14 Apr 2000 (#2000-112) Older replies may be found at: http://www.second-hand.demon.co.uk ftp://ftp.magic.asuka.net http://yavapai.ccgnews.com http://www.en.magic.asuka.net http://www.wizards.com/dci/judge/judgelistarchive.asp FOLLOWUP TO PREVIOUS REPLIES: ======================================================================= --PANTS-- [Da Twink Daddy, pointing out my mistake] >> >Any effect that creates Goblin tokens creates a permanent with both >> >name and creature subtype of "Goblin." The NR529 rulings suggests >> >that you can sacrifice a Sculpted Goblin token to Goblin Grenade. >> >> The point is that when you Soul Sculpt the card, it is no longer a >> Goblin - the Sculptor's CE wipes the Goblin subtype along with the >> "Creature" permanent type. > >It sure does. However, it doesn't change the *name*. The token will still >have the name goblin. And, unlike a Sculpted goblins of the flarg, can be >sacrificed to a goblin grenade. [I think this is what we want. It's wierd >but it's *way* to corner case it make un-wierd.] Ack. I misread your question, sorry. If you've got a token named "Goblin", with creature type "Goblin", then if you Sculpt it, it loses its creature type, but keeps its name, so you could still sacrifice it to a Goblin Grenade. It is a little weird, but it's consistent, and only works with tokens named Goblin. LONG ANSWERS: ======================================================================= [Jonny Chapman, writing some randomness] >Dear Net Rep, >is Tetravus a good card? Is it legal in Type 2? Can i play it in >Extended, is it a better deck ( Conspiracy + Tetravus)? Will it beat >Cocoa Pebbles or MOX TRIX? Fancy going out some time? I know a great >place called McKlUSKIES? In order, no, no, no, no, no and no, maybe, not a great place. ----- [Karl Burlingame, asking about Spirit Mirror] >Just checking here...By the way I read this..."at the beggining of upkeep" >means first thing in the upkeep, the game checks for tokens in play. If >there are none this creates one, if there is one it does nothing. even if I >sac the created token to say...alter of dementia, the enchantment won't >create another because the beggining of upkeep has passed. That's correct. Note that it also checks when the ability resolves - if there's a Reflection token in play when the ability resolves, you don't get the Reflection token either. ----- [Gabriel Moris, asking about Forbidden Crypt] >I have a question regarding Forbidden Crypt. >If I cast a Boomerang on it, does the Boomerang go to the graveyard or is it >removed from the game? It goes to the graveyard. The crypt leaves play before the boomerang would go to the graveyard. >For example: if I have any way of drawing twice in a turn (Howling mine in >play, for example) can I do the following: > >- Cast Time Walk >- Cast Forbidden Crypt >- Finish turn >- Draw the time walk and another card >- Boomerang the Forbidden Crypt >- Cast Time Walk >- Cast Forbidden Crypt >- Finish Turn >- Draw the Time Walk ***AND THE BOOMERANG *** >Repeat .... Yes, that's legal. ----- [Sam Sawyer, asking about "X"] >#8 In the cards they have converted mana cost X do they mean 10? No. "X" is "Any number that you choose on announcement". ----- [Da Twink Daddy, asking about CEs] >3. I have an Opal, Worship, SS, and a White Knight in play. I SS the >Worship and it becomes a >blank enchantment. Then, I Twiddle the SS, and SS the White Knight. Now the >Knight is a 2/2 blank creature and the Worship is a 4/4 blank creature! >[This *should not* happen!] No, it doesn't happen. The CE order is SS(3), OP(1), SS(2). The Knight is a 2/2 blank creature, and the Worship is a blank non-creature enchantment. (Note: I'm using the rulebook (rule 418.5c), not the D'Angelo's rulings here - I'm still asking for a definite answer on which is correct) >> [Da Twink Daddy, asking about dependencies] >> >For example say we a 2 base, I counter, 3 other CEs. Dependancies are as >> >follows: O3 dp B2, O2 dp O1, O1 dp O3. >> >> So, the order will be Base1, Base2, Counter, Other3, Other1, Other2. >> >> Continuous Effects can be calculated exactly. There's no need for a >> "scheme" to work them out. > >Okay, I admit that *if* the dependancies can be figured out, then CEs can >be ordered. I expect Jeff could give me an example (at least a theoretical >one) in which you can't even know what all the dependancies are, using the >current system, so you can't order the CEs unsing the current system. No, he can't. Working out the dependencies is difficult, but you can always work them out. Usually, the trick situations do degenerate into timestamp order. The Opalescence-Soul Sculptor one is an exception. ----- [Jeff Jordan, on CEs] >The relative order of X and Y could depend on the order you assign to >V and W, and the order of V and W could depend on the order you assign >to X and Y. This is highly unlikely to happen without creating one or more loops. Even if it did happen, you could work out all the stable situations, and then pick the correct one. It's a bit like working out the local minima in a maths problem, then working out which one is the absolute minimum. > Making any one assumption for one order could, in theory, >invalidate itself. I'm going to try and make up a quick case, I'm not >sure how undefined it will be: > >X: All Foos are Bar. >Y: All Yins are green Foos. >Z: All Yangs are red Foos. This isn't really that undefined. You have two independent effects, and one that could depend on neither (no Yins or Yangs in play - XYZ), one (Yin - YXZ) or Yang - ZXY in play) or both (Yin and Yang in play - YZX) of them. ----- [Sean Droms, asking about Replenish] >I'm building a Replenish decks, and I was wondering if, when you >Replenish in an Opalescence and a few enchantments, can those >enchantments attack immediately, or if they have summoning sickness. They have summoning sickness, just like everything else that comes into play. ----- [David Weinlick, asking for clarification] >>>21. Ingo has a Forest in play. He then plays a Conversion. After that, >>>Laurie plays Phantasmal Terrain on the Forest, naming Mountain. Is the >>>Forest now: >> >a) A Mountain >>>b) A Plains >> >c) Both >> >>B. A Plains. Conversion depends on Phantasmal Terrain. Note: if the land >>was a Mountain to start with, the land would now be a Mountain. Yes, I >>do realise that this is really confusing and unintuitive. > >I see where you seem to be going with this, but can you give an >explanation as to why? I need to be able to explain it to other >players in my area, who often rely on me for rulings. If you've got a Forest being PTed to a Mountain with a Conversion in play, then the Conversion depends on the PT, as the PT changes what the Conversion applies to. If it's a Mountain, not a Forest, then Conversion doesn't depend on the Phantasmal Terrain, so they're applied in timestamp order, and it ends up being a Mountain due to the Phantasmal Terrain. Paul. - -------------------------------------------------NEW-PHONE-NUMBER-- - - Paul Barclay -- paul@second-hand.demon.co.uk -- Phone: 07939 081819 - - DCI Level 3 judge ---- http://www.second-hand.demon.co.uk/index.htm - - Official MTG-L Network Representative for Wizards of the Coast, Inc -