Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:05:06 +0100 From: Paul Barclay Subject: [O] NetRep Reply 527 ======================================================================= NetRep Reply number 527 to the Magic: the Gathering List ======================================================================= This reply covers the digests: MTG-L Digest - 25 Mar 2000 to 26 Mar 2000 (#2000-89) MTG-L Digest - 26 Mar 2000 to 27 Mar 2000 (#2000-90) Older replies may be found at: http://www.second-hand.demon.co.uk ftp://ftp.magic.asuka.net http://yavapai.ccgnews.com http://www.en.magic.asuka.net http://www.wizards.com/dci/judge/judgelistarchive.asp SHORT ANSWERS: ======================================================================= ** If an ability says it can be played from a zone other than in play, or if it obviously can't be played from the In Play zone, then it can be played from the mentioned zone. ** The Licids don't work in the same way as Animate Dead. Licids say "Becomes an enchant creature. Move it onto...". Animate Dead says "Becomes an enchant creature enchanting...". ** If anything triggers in the untap step, it is put onto the Stack at the beginning of the upkeep step. Nothing can go onto the Stack in the untap step. ** Elaine Ferrao doesn't read this list. I'll pass the comments about multiplayer tournaments to her. LONG ANSWERS: ======================================================================= [Tom Skalski, asking three questions] >Here is the situation: Aluren and Pandemonium were in play for the >opposing team. They then played Shrieking Drake over and over again >dealing massive damage one point at a time with Pandemonium. We tried >to use instant kill spells (Bolt, Incinerate) to stop the combo, but >they said the Shrieking Drake was already going back to their hand and >can't be killed. That's not correct. You can kill it in response to its triggered ability, and it will end up in the graveyard. >2) I have a 3/3 generic creature in play which I am trying to put a >Zephid's Embrace upon. My opponent in response Lightning Bolts the >creature. Because of the timing it seems he can do this before it >becomes untargetable. That's correct. When the Bolt resolves, the creature will die, as it's still a 3/3 at that point (it won't become a 5/5 until the Embrace resolves, which will never happen). >3) I hate even asking this question of you because I already know the >answer, but here is the situation: We were playing draft and my buddy >is complaining how he always gets mana shorted. >He said: "Half of my deck is mana". Initially I felt bad for him, and I >wondered to myself how he could be shorted this way so often if that >much land was included. He went on to explain what constituted "half my >deck is mana". He had 30 spells and 14 land". We all told him that was >just shy of 1/3 (33%) mana, not 1/2 (50%) mana. He insisted we were all >stupid and claimed we need to go back and "learn math". Well, to put it slightly bluntly, he's wrong. If half of his deck is mana, then half of his deck is not mana, so there should be equal piles of spells and mana. >Would you mind reiterating this briefly in an "official" capacity so we >don't have to take his abusive comments anymore? I don't technically have an official capacity for mathematics, but my Mum is an infant school teacher and she says this is how she teaches her kids about "half", so hopefully he'll take her official view. [Ingo Warnke, talking about Animate Dead] >> Animate Dead "becomes" an enchant creature and it can actually become an >> enchantment on an illegal permanent (albeit for a very short time). >That's a ruling. Is the underlying rule (if one exists) known to you? If yes, >what does it say? I'm pretty sure it'll go into the next version of the rulebook. For now, we have six (I think) cards affected by it. Consider it to be an Official Ruling From Bethmo for those six cards. Basically, we're just restoring them to their correct function. [Kevin Cron, asking about spell resolution] >< well as all Limited tournaments using cards from Urza's Saga onwards, > the order of the graveyard doesn't matter at all. >> >This is something that I see as *very important*. In the game of Magic there >are very specific ways and orders in which cards go to the graveyard, >especially during the resolution of spells that involve the graveyard. Is >there some rule being lifted/changed that I/we should know about? The order of the graveyard is not important (I didn't say anything about the order that spells go to the graveyard). It means that if your graveyard is knocked onto the floor, you don't have to worry about putting it in the right order (and, if there are confusing graveyard- interaction stuff going on, you can make things clearer if you need to). No cards will be printed that look for a certain order in the graveyard. [Jeff Jordan, asking about various local enchantment issues] >Third, is it possible for you to pick itself as its own target? I had >thought not, and D'Angelo, specifically says you can't (although I am >the one who suggested it to Stephen.) If you can, can you pick a >creature that cannot be enchanted at all, like a Tetravite token? Licids? Yes, of course you can choose a Licid as the target for its own ability ("Target creature" - the Licid is a creature). You can pick a Tetravite token, too. In both cases, the Licid will become a Local Enchantment, and then die as it is not enchanting anything. >+++++ >> 214.8d ...If a local enchantment is coming into play through any >> other means, the player putting it into play chooses a permanent for >> it to enchant before it can enter play. >Define "legal." I define it as "a permanent that would be legal for >this card to enchant if it were in play." That's almost correct. "As a local enchantment", not "in play". But what you _don't_ look at is effects that could apply to the card, as things coming into play with the Treachery could change the legality. >> This means you use the game state before it comes into play, so the >> Treachery is Blue, not colourless. > >At which time it is also just a card, not a permanent. That's fine - you're doing this because you're putting a local enchantment card that will become a local enchantment permanent into play, and before you do that, you must pick something that the local enchantment permanent in its natural state can enchant. >> Another example would be the same Pro:Blue creature in play, with a >> Treachery and Humility being Replenished into play - you can't >> Treachery the creature, even though it would be legal when both >> cards actually do come into play. > >Agreed - you use the game state *before* the CIP event. But the >rules *and* the continuous effects in play tell us what the Treachery >will look like at that time, and "legal" can only be interpreted >from that viewpoint. Put Animate Artifact on the Thran Lens. Replenish in an enchantment with "As X comes into play, sacrifice a creature" as well as a Treachery. Or, just Replenish in a Cho-Manno's Blessing and a Treachery. _This_ is why we don't look forward in time. We can't be sure what's going to happen. The only reason that you're checking anything is to choose something for a local enchantment to enchant. You _know_ it's a local enchantment. Quite simply, having enchantments end up on illegal permanents is a result we Do Not Want If At All Possible. >+++++ >1) Seasinger taps to control a creature. It is untapped with Mind >over Matter as a response. It responds again to control a second >creature. Repeat as often as desired. How many creatures can you >gain control of using this method? Either N+1, or 1, where N is the number of cards in your hand. I'm not quite sure (I initially answered "N+1" before remembering that other things had been said in the past). I'll check what the Rules Team want to have happen. >It is clear that you consider the duration of these effects as >extending from resolution until the event mentioned. The rule I was >referring to as "horrible" interprets the duration as extending from >announcement until the event. Actually, it can be better visualised as extending "backwards" from resolution to announcement. But, yes, this is a dodgy area. I'll take it up with the Rules Team again. >2) Giant Growth is announced, and Ertai's Meddling delays it three >turns. Does it eventually give a bonus? Notice that Giant Growth >has a duration "until end of turn," and the turn it was announced >in has long since ended. If you try to use Ertai's Meddling as a precedent for anything at all, I'll send in the hired goons to eliminate you. The card should never have been made, and "works differently". Just like Fork, Word of Command and all sorts of other cards. Rulings about Ertai's Meddling generally have no bearing on other cards. >+++++ >> Note that in Standard, Masques Block and Urza's block tournaments, as >> well as all Limited tournaments using cards from Urza's Saga onwards, >> the order of the graveyard doesn't matter at all. > >I thought that was the intention until I read Lifeline's text. >The word "first" seems to be there to make card-tracking easier. >But this doesn't do what Lifeline is intended to do. >It brings back a discarded creature or one that died a lonely death >later the same turn) Have you found R&D's secret drugs supply, Jeff? :-) Lifeline looks for "a creature", not "a creature card", so it can only find stuff that's gone to the graveyard from play. For seconds, "the first" refers to "the first creature mentioned", not the first creature in the graveyard. Lifeline works as it is ruled to (as you acknowledge later on). [Thomas Burris, asking some questions] >1) I have a Coffin Queen in play and a Dominating Licid in my >graveyard, if I animate the licid and he then enchants a creature, what >happens if the Coffin Queen untaps? The Licid will be removed from the game. It doesn't matter that it's not a creature at the moment. >2) I have a bunch of grey ogres (masques draft) one of which is >enchanted by an opponents laccolith rig. I attack with all of them and >he blocks the rigged guy and tries to shoot another of my 2/2s. If I cast >ramosian rally, does the target survive? No. Your (now) 3/3 Grey Ogre A deals 3 damage to your (now) 3/3 Grey Ogre B. Unlike combat damage, the damage dealt by Laccolith Rig isn't determined until its ability resolves. >3) Does Triskelion have erratta to come into play with 3 counters, or >is it a comes into play effect as worded on the card? It's "~ comes into play with 3 +1/+1 counters." It comes in as a 4/4. [Colin McGrew, asking about damage] >I had a Cho-Manno Revolutionary with a Parriah and a Cho-Manno's >Blessing which gave it protection from red. He played a 10 damage lava >burst which says it is not affected by redirecting. Since my enchantments >cant be affected by spells or abilities and my Cho-Manno had protection from >red do I take damage or is the damage redirected to the Revolutionary as the >Parriah states? The damage will be redirected (Lava Burst only prevents damage from being prevented/redirected from creatures, not players) to the Cho- Manno, but neither Manno's own ability or the Protection from the Blessing can prevent this damage, so Cho will die. Paul. - -------------------------------------------------NEW-PHONE-NUMBER-- - - Paul Barclay -- paul@second-hand.demon.co.uk -- Phone: 07939 081819 - - DCI Level 3 judge ---- http://www.second-hand.demon.co.uk/index.htm - - Official MTG-L Network Representative for Wizards of the Coast, Inc -